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The 1 mile Mosin Nagant

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The 1 mile Mosin Nagant

Postby 0933 » Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:48 pm

My better half wanted to get me a 'special' Christmas present... so I told her a high-wall round receiver M91/30. The guys at J&G didn't know what a high-wall was. But I gave Bev enough instruction that she picked one out.

Can you guys guess which one it is?

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Sure enough, I opened her up and found a 1943 Izhevsk high-wall!!!

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She isn't the cleanest, machining marks ALL over, and the marks aren't struck very well... But ALL my other Mosins are Hex receiver Tula's (or built off one).

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There is a ridge down the center of the receiver.

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There was black paint all over the receiver and barrel.

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The date and arsenal were barely struck.

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The receiver wasn't finished. The rear right side doesn't have the slant cut into it.

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I slugged the bore... She's pretty worn. .313" from groove to groove, and .302" from land to land. The last six inches or so of her bore is larger than the rest. It was very hard to drive the slug through that portion.

Her buttplate was scrubbed (or never struck), her floorplate was lined out and electropencilled to match, her bolt just electropencilled.

Her stock is a pre-war one that is pretty clean... no repairs and the grain looks pretty. I'm going to strip it and re-finish it with pine-tar. All the hardware on it is war-time, or post war parts. The nosecap is rounded, the buttplate is postwar, the band keepers are stamped. The magazine and bolt are all typical refurbished mis-matched parts from both arsenals.

I've already got the stock I'll be putting on her... a lowel designs L96!

Here is an overall right side veiw of it.

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Here is the right and left side quartering veiws.

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Here is the veiw from the front.

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I'll mount this attachment point for the versa-pod on the front http://www.midwayusa.com/product/515076 ... c=wishList And I'll be using this versa-pod http://www.midwayusa.com/product/787833 ... c=wishList

Here is a the underside... you can still use the magazine as intended.

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Here is a close up of the cheek peice. You can shim it to raise and lower it.

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Here is the inletted portion.

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It's not inletted for a Timney trigger... I think I'll try and stick with the originnal one. I ordered a Finn sear, SS firingpin spring, and slack spring from ctresser here on the forums. https://www.crsurplusspring.com/

I can't wait to play around with this trigger! I'm thinking about doing this mod too... http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/powder ... r-job.html

I've already got a set of RSI bedding pillars and hex action screws. http://www.rocksolidind.com/

My plan is to close the rear bridge and move the bolt handle back. I will modify a Rem 700 LA steel 20 MOA base to mount convetionally... here is what the receiver will look like when I'm finished.

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I'm planning on doing an intense re-profilling of the cocking knob... taking off the 'flange' and leaving a nice smooth radius.

I'm planning on picking up an extra, bolt head, cocking piece, firing pin, and trigger.

Now... here is what is going to make it a 1 mile Mosin.

I'm going to re-chamber it in .220 Ackley Improved...

.220 Ackley Improved on the left, .220 swift on the right.

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Now, the R&D has already been done by dirtyjim (on SRF)...

The bolt head needs to be modded... here is a picture of the bolt that dirtyjim soldered a shim into.

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The extractor needs minimal work also. The .220 swift case head is also .473" in dia. The 7.62x54r rim dia. is .567".

The ejector needs to be modded. I'll probably cut my own in similiar profile to a bannerman ejector...

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The good news is that the magazine will readily accomodate this round.

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You can see that there is PLENTY of room for me to seat bullets out as long as I need too... I'm planning on shooting 80 berger VLD's or 80 gain A-MAX's... I also might experiment with some 90 grain Berger VLD's. These bullets have Secant ogives and are known for being tempermental when it comes to seating depth.

You can see at the bottom of the line-up the long, high B.C. bullets in .224".

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Now I want to talk some ballistics...

I've been playing around with numbers, RPM, stability factors... etc. And I'm going to use (probably a kreiger) heavy palma contour barrel, 30", .224", with a 1-9" twist.

Here is the ONLY load I could find for a heavy bullet in .220 Ackley Improved... http://www.reloadersnest.com/unverified ... 95&ID=4568

Of course it's the internet so take with a grain of salt... but crunching he numbers, even at 3,300 fps the bullet is still spinning at 264,000 rpm. This is borderline stability for a VLD... but if I can actually get 3,700 fps, then the bullet is spinning at 296,000 rpm. With a 30" barrel, I'll be squeezing the most velocity out of this overbore cartridge... and I'd really like to see if I can get a 90 grain VLD to shoot well out of this rifle.

The G1 B.C.'s of these bullets are...

80 grain Berger .445
80 grain A-MAX .473
90 grain Berger .551

These aren't that great... good, but not 'GREAT'.

But when we crunch the numbers, this should be one heck'va good external ballistic performer... (These were using a sight height of 2" above the centerline of the bore, 5200 ft elevation, 70 degrees fahrenheit, and 5% relative humidity)

The .220 AI with an 80 grain A-MAX @ 3700 fps using a 100 yd zero.

500 yds 4.5 MOA up
1,000 yds 15.75 MOA up

Compare this to the 7.62x51 M118LR round...

175 gain SMK @ 2650 fps using a 100 yd zero. (G1 B.C. .505)

500 yds 12.5 MOA up
1,000 yds 41.25 MOA up

AND the wind deflection on the 80 grain A-MAX is almost HALF of what the 175 grain SMK experiences!!!

Now, let's look at the 139 grain Scenar in the 6.5x284, a round that all long range rounds are compared against.

139 grain Scenar @ 2950 fps using a 100 yd zero. (G1 B.C. .578)

500 yds 7.75 MOA up
1,000 yds 23.5 MOA up

The .220 AI still has 2,000 + fps at 1,000 yards while the 6.5x284 has dropped off to 1,600 fps. The A-MAX also experiences about 80% of the wind drift that the Scenar does.

I will note that both rounds I'm comparing the .220 AI against have more energy at ALL ranges.


The reason I'm calling this the 1 mile Mosin is that I'm planning on pulling off some 1 mile shots with this rifle. 1760 yds is a mile, and just beyond the transonic range. However, .224" VLD's have shown that they CAN negotiate the transonic barrier without losng there stability. With the ballistic performance, and the 20 MOA base... I should be able to dial to a mile with about 55 MOA up from a 100 yd zero.
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Re: The 1 mile Mosin Nagant

Postby 0933 » Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:01 pm

It is going to be a little while before I acquire the barrel, reamers, gauges, brass, and dies... Untill then I'm planning on cutting the original barrel down to 22" and shooting her in the original 7.62x54R caliber. I want to make sure the bolt handle relocation works, and the 20 MOA rail is solid before I do the caliber change.

I made some progress on her yesterday...

The wood blocks on the wheeler barrel vice are the weak part of the system... So I improvised. I acquired a block of aluminum, drilled a hole in the center, and cut it in half. I now have a pair of aluminum 'blocks' for tough mil-surp barrels.

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I used a 4' cheater bar when I was torqueing down the barrel vice... then I used the same cheater bar on the action wrench.

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I'm becoming a pro at spinning these barrels off... I don't know what it took to 'break' it free, but I didn't use any heat, or penetrating oil... she came apart easily enough, and it takes about 200 ft-lbs. to get the witness marks to line up.

I installed the Finn sear, and slack spring... I also used the SS firing pin spring in the bolt.

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I really like the slack spring... it returns the trigger forward even when the cocking peice is forward (the firing pin is in the fired position). I'll probably do the set-screw mod on the trigger soon... though I'll wait until the bolt handle is moved back, and the cocking peice is modded before I fine tune the trigger.

I cut the barrel down to 22". I just used a hacksaw... next time I have access to a lathe, I'll clean it up and turn down the dovetail. I'll crown it after the muzzle is squared up.

I torqued the barrel back on and took a preview pic. Once I get her finished, you won't even know that she is a Mosin Nagant!

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The bore is a little worn... I'll try and post a pic up of the rifling. I mic'd the O.D. of the end of the barrel. At 22" the barrel measures 0.630"... once I turn the muzzle down and thread it, I'll have a shoulder of 0.065" to torque the flash hider onto. Me, and a member on SRF were talking about installing opened up muzzle devices on the MN barrel. I'm going to put a vortex flash hider on mine.

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Re: The 1 mile Mosin Nagant

Postby iridium-192 » Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:25 pm

This is what I'm talking about... Keep building up & make it awesome!
Feci quod potui, faciant meliora potentes

Black Mamba http://socamo.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4931
Ultimate Mosin 2 http://socamo.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4948
Earlier projects http://socamo.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4949
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Re: The 1 mile Mosin Nagant

Postby DevilDog » Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:06 pm

Gonna be sweet! Nice to be in AZ where you can find a mile to shoot. I like the math, looks like that .220 AI is a great fit for need only a little conversion.

It shows how limited the standard Mosin round is, particularly with the limited bullet selection and outdated case profile. Sure I can get a 215gr VLD with a .696 BC, but pushing it fast enough to stabilize makes me nervous with barrel pressure in the old gals.
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Re: The 1 mile Mosin Nagant

Postby Shepard » Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:12 pm

I love it. These builds are becoming more and more intricate. I love the stock, L 96 is one of my favorites.
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Re: The 1 mile Mosin Nagant

Postby Grimstod » Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:26 pm

I am curious and a little new to these guns. (three months going) Why did you want a "high-wall round receiver M91/30"
I also would like to do a build like this with a lother walther barrel. Getting someone to thread and install install it is proving tuff. I have called about 6 gun smiths and everyone is buried in work or not interested cause it "one of those worthless russian guns". Lol How wrong they are.
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Re: The 1 mile Mosin Nagant

Postby Marauder 1 » Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:40 pm

See this is what I wanted this site to be a place of innovation and fellowship. That is going to be one awesome build. Can't wait to see her in action. I have a blank HiWal now I'm you've got me thinking about a McGowan setup for the same caliber..

Great job.. I'd love to chat with you sometime..

Seeya
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Re: The 1 mile Mosin Nagant

Postby 0933 » Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:43 pm

Thanks guys! I really appreciate the kind words. I haven't completed near the builds that you guys have... I've learned ALOT from your projects, iridium-192, Marauder, Shepard and DevilDog, you guys have some beautiful builds!! A special thanks to Shepard for some of the details as far as crush when torqueing on the barrel, and setting headspace!!

Of course a huge thank you to Marauder 1!! Thank you for taking the time to create this forum and getting us all together! If I can help in anyway, just let me know.

I probably won't have her up and running untill the summer sometime... but when I do, I'll take some video of her performance. I just got an iphone 4s for christmas, and I'm going to get the holder for taking video with it through my spotting scope. I'll try and get some video of shooting 500+ yds... the bullet trace should be insane!! When I do shoot a mile with her, I'll have to have a forward spotter because the small mass of the bullet won't give me (as the shooter) a visible bullet splash.

Grimstod, I wanted a high-wall round receiver because I knew it wouldn't have an internal shoulder. Instead of having to worry about the distance from the internal shoulder to the receiver face AND the distance to the bolt face, I just have to worry about the distance from the receiver face (after I square it) to the bolt face. It should make headspacing a little easier. I also wanted it to 'look right' with the scope base installed. I'm going to modify a steel rem 700 LA 20 MOA base to mount conventionally on the receiver after I close the rear bridge. I don't know if the lightening cut on a low-wall would look right with the picatinny rail mounted.

Also, I believe McGowen will cut the threads on the barrel for threading onto a Mosin Nagant. I believe Shepard has a build he's working on with one of his barrels. I'm sure some more guys with more experience (than me) with them can chime in with information...

Marauder 1, we can converse anytime. I'll PM you with my E-mail address, and phone number. Right now I'm working nights at Ruger's plant in Prescott. My schedule is pretty much opposite what a normal person would be... so I don't know if talking would be feasable very often, but we can E-mail anytime! :thumbup:
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Re: The 1 mile Mosin Nagant

Postby 0933 » Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:35 pm

Here is a Pic of her bore...

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Not the best,but shootable. I'll probably buy some Hornady .312" interlock 150 grain bullets. Those are flat based and should shoot ok from this .313" bore. I just want to try out the bolt re-location and rail before I change calibers.

Since the L96 stock looks like an AICS, I want the overall rifle t look like an AI rifle, like the Accuracy International Arctic Warfare Super Magnum.

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When I do the bolt relocation, I'm going to fabricate it so that it looks like one of these AI bolts. I'll either use this PTG bolt knob, or drill and tap the original bolt knob ball. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/180663 ... c=wishList

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The back portion of those bolts have some pretty cool flat radius' machined into them. I'm going to mod the cocking piece so it will be similiar.

This is what I'm thinking about doing...

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I'll take off most of the flange overhanging the bolt body. I'll reprofile it, and cut two flats on either side of the cocking piece also. Hopefully it'll come out looking ok...
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Re: The 1 mile Mosin Nagant

Postby iridium-192 » Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:59 pm

Looking at your knocking know I couldn't resist to make a suggestion...
Look what I've done with mine.
I've shaved upper extended part to the round & silver soldered 1/8" flat plate (same width as shaved part) & shaved round shape using Dremel so it would not interfere with bolt body... It looks sharp & very nice! No extended parts any more...
Feci quod potui, faciant meliora potentes

Black Mamba http://socamo.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4931
Ultimate Mosin 2 http://socamo.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4948
Earlier projects http://socamo.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4949
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