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Mosin Nagant Repairs & Restoration

Bolt Lift Issue?

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Bolt Lift Issue?

Postby CCA762 » Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:05 am

Hey Everybody,
I have an issue with two rifles I sporterized for a couple of close friends. I talked with Marauder1 about it a couple of weeks ago. Both rifles were placed into boyd's stocks. Both rifles have timney triggers installed. Both rifles have RSI after market bolt bodies. The issue is that the bolts keep wanting to open on their own as though their under some form of spring pressure. They will try and open while being carried by sling when hunting. I have done every bit of inletting I can think to do to give clearance to all working surfaces. Marauder1 seemed to think there may be an issue with the camming surfaces. I wonder if there isn't an issue with the trigger causing some form of lift. It could be a combination of several things. If anyone has had any experience with this issue I would be extremely grateful for advise on a fix. The rifles perform safely but seem to be under some form of spring pressure or lifting force causing the bolt not to stay in the closed locked position. Thanks for any advise you can offer.
"I have created the blacksmith who fans the coals beneath the forge and makes the weapons of destruction. And I have created the armies that destroy." Isaiah 54:16 NLT
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Re: Bolt Lift Issue?

Postby Shepard » Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:21 pm

There is no lock that holds the bolt closed. If you have worked the firing pin spring and lightened the pressure --- the bolt opens easier. Mine all do - open easier. If I carried them slung on my back they would pop open sooner or later.

Suggestion -- carry the rifle with the firing pin dropped on a empty chamber. This will hold the bolt from opening when carried.
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Re: Bolt Lift Issue?

Postby ShootnMathews » Thu Jan 07, 2016 7:58 pm

That's very interesting. I'm baffled at what might cause that. I'm assuming the bolts are put together correctly. Is the stock inletted enough for the magazine interrupter? That's where I ran I to trouble. You should be able to push the interrupter in far enough that it's flush with the inside receiver wall. I'm still not sure that would cause the bolt to spring open.
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Re: Bolt Lift Issue?

Postby Surplus » Thu Jan 07, 2016 10:49 pm

Sometimes if the action is to tight on the stock, you can get some bolts to slightly open, I have an issue like that also with one of my rifles and I need to remove some wood from the sides of the wall.

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Re: Bolt Lift Issue?

Postby CCA762 » Fri Jan 08, 2016 8:24 am

Shepard wrote:There is no lock that holds the bolt closed. If you have worked the firing pin spring and lightened the pressure --- the bolt opens easier. Mine all do - open easier. If I carried them slung on my back they would pop open sooner or later.

Suggestion -- carry the rifle with the firing pin dropped on a empty chamber. This will hold the bolt from opening when carried.


I've not done any work on the F/P spring. Would a stronger F/P spring help the issue?
"I have created the blacksmith who fans the coals beneath the forge and makes the weapons of destruction. And I have created the armies that destroy." Isaiah 54:16 NLT
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Re: Bolt Lift Issue?

Postby Grindl » Fri Jan 08, 2016 10:12 pm

You might take a look at the area where the bolt locking bar closes at the base in the receiver . I was having a similar issue , just not nearly as bad , but the bolt would not completely close into a totally "Locked" position. I "blued" the area on the receiver and it showed some small area of high-spots on the inside part of the lug area of the receiver . My solution was a Dremel with the small sanding drum , and slowly and carefully taking the "burrs" out of the corners till the bolt dropped flat against the bottom . I had to sand "relief" into the corners of the locking areas to relieve the angle on the receiver , to allow the bolt to go all the way down to touch the flat on the receiver .

I also had to sand the flat on the receiver to get it even and level , front to back . That was also part of what was keeping the bolt from closing "Down" completely . Hope that all made sense to you .
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Re: Bolt Lift Issue?

Postby CCA762 » Sat Jan 09, 2016 12:52 pm

ShootnMathews wrote:That's very interesting. I'm baffled at what might cause that. I'm assuming the bolts are put together correctly. Is the stock inletted enough for the magazine interrupter? That's where I ran I to trouble. You should be able to push the interrupter in far enough that it's flush with the inside receiver wall. I'm still not sure that would cause the bolt to spring open.


ShootnMathews,
I checked all that on both rifles, even used inletting black to make sure everything was getting clearance. I did notice that when the interrupter/ejector doesn't have clearance that loading the magazine is a bear. The bolts are both assembled correctly only thing there is the use of the RSI bolt body with the turned down handle. Maruader1 had mentioned something about the camming surfaces not mating properly between the old and the new. I'll be sure and double check everything though. Thanks.
"I have created the blacksmith who fans the coals beneath the forge and makes the weapons of destruction. And I have created the armies that destroy." Isaiah 54:16 NLT
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Re: Bolt Lift Issue?

Postby CCA762 » Sat Jan 09, 2016 1:02 pm

Surplus wrote:Sometimes if the action is to tight on the stock, you can get some bolts to slightly open, I have an issue like that also with one of my rifles and I need to remove some wood from the sides of the wall.

Surplus


Surplus,
I wondered about the tightness of the action screws. As far as I can tell the stock fits properly but I'll recheck it. I was actually thinking of doing the pillar bedding to see if it might correct the issue. The action screws never seemed to want to bottom out, I like to torque the screws to 55-65 inch/lbs. but couldn't get them to seat at that torque limit. Thanks.
"I have created the blacksmith who fans the coals beneath the forge and makes the weapons of destruction. And I have created the armies that destroy." Isaiah 54:16 NLT
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Re: Bolt Lift Issue?

Postby CCA762 » Sat Jan 09, 2016 1:13 pm

Grindl wrote:You might take a look at the area where the bolt locking bar closes at the base in the receiver . I was having a similar issue , just not nearly as bad , but the bolt would not completely close into a totally "Locked" position. I "blued" the area on the receiver and it showed some small area of high-spots on the inside part of the lug area of the receiver . My solution was a Dremel with the small sanding drum , and slowly and carefully taking the "burrs" out of the corners till the bolt dropped flat against the bottom . I had to sand "relief" into the corners of the locking areas to relieve the angle on the receiver , to allow the bolt to go all the way down to touch the flat on the receiver .

I also had to sand the flat on the receiver to get it even and level , front to back . That was also part of what was keeping the bolt from closing "Down" completely . Hope that all made sense to you .


Grindl,
I don't know if it's the same thing or not, but I was looking at another action I have and noticed that there might be some form of misplacement between the interface of the connecting bar, cocking piece, cocking notch, and the timney trigger sear. I'm not positive on that and I haven't had a chance to check/test anything but it was something I noticed that could possibly be a symptom of the problem. I'll let you know if I come up with anything. Thanks.
"I have created the blacksmith who fans the coals beneath the forge and makes the weapons of destruction. And I have created the armies that destroy." Isaiah 54:16 NLT
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Re: Bolt Lift Issue?

Postby Grindl » Sat Jan 09, 2016 10:40 pm

I was referring to the bar on the bolt assembly that rotates into the long slot on the right side of the receiver . The radius at the bottom of the cut on the receiver had to be relieved to get that bar to come all the way down . It was a machining issue because it was straight , 90 degree wall cut with no relief in the radius for the straight corner of the bar to drop down , and have the long flat of the bar contact the long flat of the receiver . I put about a 5 degree angle in that radius towards the back of the receiver .

It didn't change the opening or closing pressure , that I can tell , but it did allow the bar to come down to contact the flat on the right side of the receiver . Guess it was just a cosmetic thing for me , more than a function issue . I had studied pictures of all the beautifully built guns here , and mostly they had a very close fit on that bar to the receiver match-up . I don't sling mine so I have no idea if it would make a difference in that aspect or not .

As fast as some of these were slammed out the door , many finishing touches were over-looked , and any place that showed any heavy "wear" marks has been sanded and polished on mine . Just another possibility to look at is what I was throwing out . When you do find out what causes the problem , let us all know , please .
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