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54r compared to the 30-06

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54r compared to the 30-06

Postby Grimstod » Sat Mar 29, 2014 5:06 pm

The 7.62x54r compared to the 30-06 is a good comparison in deed. They are very close but have differences though they are slight differences, these differences are many.

1. 30-06 headspaces off the shoulder. 7.62x54r is off the rime. A very large rim too by the way.
2. There is more taper to the 7.62x54r then the 30-06 thus it extracts better (also the big rim helps), thus it is better for machine guns and high pressure loads if done properly.
3. The case capacity is according to SAMMI specks 8gr different. Mosin being 60.4gr of water vs the the 06s 68gr depending also on the brass there may be a little variation there.
4. 54r is much more efficient round. It has been tested by several magazines (one being targetshooterUK), and have shown that the 54r will push bullets and in some cases 100fps faster with same barrel length, bullet weight, powder charge and primer of the 06!
5. Barrel life in the 54r tends to be longer because of the longer throat and shoulder taper thus reducing barrel erosion at the neck and freeboar of the barrel.
6. the 54r loves those heavy bullets!!! It will perform best ballistically with a 210gr! and is, with no surprise close to the original gr weight(220gr) of bullets originally designed to be used in the Mosin.
a. SG values from Millers Constant yield best results with bullets over 200gr with a value of 1.98 any bullets lower then that held less then expectable results.
b. 174gr sierra match king by the weigh is just barely adequate with a SG value of 1.44. I have written them several times about making a heavier bullet for the .311 crowd.
7. If your head spacing is set up correctly(nice and tight with say no more then .002 of room for error on the side of brass) then brass fired from the 54r will last longer because it does not stretch at the web. Rather it stretches in the shoulder where brass eventually flows and gets thicker over time anyway.
8. As another mentioned before light bullets and powder can also be used but they are not as effective(accurate). Again the head spacing of the 54r allows for much room on error (but don't try it on purpose) light loads and bullets.
9. The 54r is considered a short action cartridge. This is a big benefit cause it lightened up the receiver. Shorter receiver is also stiffer. 06 needs a longer receiver and so they must be heavier or weaker and less accurate.

Well I think that is about everything I can think of for now.
Todays designers don't like rimmed cartridges cause it makes magazine design more difficult. They can feed just as well but since the gun designers seam to be uninterested in taking the time to design around the rimmed cartridges one fault to take advantage of its many other positives I see in the future a continuing trend to rimless cartridges. Sorry about the run-on.
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Re: 54r compared to the 30-06

Postby Shepard » Sun Mar 30, 2014 8:32 pm

If your head spacing is set up correctly(nice and tight with say no more then .002 of room for error on the side of brass) then brass fired from the 54r will last longer because it does not stretch at the web.

This is why I use head spacing methods from both rimmed and rimless cases. I have used this method from my first build - the second time I mounted the barrel. If you remember Ben -- this is how I setup your piece. I learned a lot from my first barrel setup and then Dzmitry's chamber problems with his first build with the UK barrel.
Loadable brass - that is the problem. Brass with the least distortion last the longest. It's also easier on your equipment, that's why I make my chambers tight.
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Re: 54r compared to the 30-06

Postby Alan LA » Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:12 am

Great read! :thumbup:

I'm curious what sources you used for your info.
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Re: 54r compared to the 30-06

Postby Grimstod » Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:31 pm

Accurate shooter.com


They have boat loads of info on cartridges and what there diferent design characteristics creat in performance.
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Re: 54r compared to the 30-06

Postby Shepard » Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:35 pm

A good read would be anything you can find about P.O. Ackley and the AI Improved cartridge system. He was able to add to the ballistics of a lot of standard calibers and make them better. The bases of his idea was to be able to start with normal store bought ammo and fire form it on the first shot. That way you didn't have any problems get loadable brass.
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Re: 54r compared to the 30-06

Postby iridium-192 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:10 pm

7.62x54r is my favorite round hands down! :thumbup:
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Re: 54r compared to the 30-06

Postby Shepard » Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:23 am

Outside of the 762x54r -- the 30-06 is my favorite round. I used to really hand load these. I used the LEE Classic hand loader and pounded each round through its paces. The one thing I remember about the load chart is that with the IMR 4350 there was a load for every 10 grain increment of bullet all the way from 110 gr bullets to 240 grain bullets. I still believe the 30-06 is one of the most versatile loading rounds out there. I still like 762x54r better.
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Re: 54r compared to the 30-06

Postby opos » Sat Apr 05, 2014 2:10 pm

Got a question....not trying to differ with the info but if the best ammo for the Mosin was 200+ grains why is the "light ball" so prevelent and If I'm not mistaken the heaviest military load was the Bulgarian brass case and I think it's in the 180 grain range...just seems strange that the "best" load is much heavier in terms of projectile than what the military loads were for it...was there any discussion of this?

Thanks
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Re: 54r compared to the 30-06

Postby Grimstod » Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:23 pm

Yes, Read about some of the better match grade Russian ammo here that falls into the 200gr category.
viewtopic.php?f=96&t=6094&p=23340#p23340


And that is a valid question.
1. When the Russians adopted the spritzer designed bullet it was a scaled down copy of the German 8mm. They did not really design it for the Mosin. They never really engineered it to the Mosin exactly and most avery variations of it are just a simple copy with little experimentation. Typical in a Communist world were thinking is discouraged. Its why it shoots so terribly too at 147gr.

2. Its steel core not lead! And that makes a BIG difference. The Russian n71 and newer n714 bullets are still quite light at only 152gr but they are also steel core. And that is the big gorilla in the room. Steel bullets have less density so they are much longer where a comparable lead bullet that is needed for most civilian purposes must be much heavier to have the same profile. Take again the n714 it is the same BC .498 as the Sierra Matchking but the Sierra (at 174gr) is lead core the Russian round is steel. This gives n714 a longer body similar to heavy bullets that the Wosin likes because of the way things like Freebore, neck, cartridge taper, and a long barrel all prefer heavier or at least longer bullets. We as civilians can't use steel bullets in a lot of places like hunting and California for example.

Does that make sense?
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Re: 54r compared to the 30-06

Postby opos » Sat Apr 05, 2014 7:02 pm

Makes perfect sense...figured that was probably the issue...just seems odd that a rifle that shoots so well with the heavier projectile has the light ball so much in the picture..but the 147 grain light ball in steel probably acts like a much heavier bullet so shoots ok...thanks for the information.
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