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How versatile can a load be?

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How versatile can a load be?

Postby Grimstod » Sat Nov 15, 2014 7:03 pm

So why make more then one load for you gun?
There is no one load that dose it all. Just like there is no one car or computer that does it all. My phone is best for calls. My mac pro for video rendering and design stuff. My mac book air for writing, my mac book pro for mobile photo editing.
Loading is the same. For example my Gun Smyert 3.5 has two loads. One at 48.6gr and the other at 43.2. I use the same bullet for both. The 48 I use for hunting, the 43 for target shooting. Why the difference? Well the 48gr is at an accuracy node but not as good a one as the 43. The 43 I can make 3shot groups at 350yards all bullets touching. The 48 only can do about .4moa at 100 yards with a five shot group. The 43 gr is also a much cooler load that will not wear out my barrel really fast. Thus I get to ride the accuracy node for a longer period of time.
Both to have radically differing velocities. The 43gr does about 2400fps and the 48 pushes them at 2700. But again remember speed is not everything. There have been some great guns made that get blistering 4300fps speed but these will never be seen winning any competitions because by the time you develop a load for it the barrel will already be worn out. For example a 22-250 has a good competition life of only 700rds. That is like the blink of an eye. Most competition shooters shoot that many bullets in two weeks time or less. Imagine having to get a new barrel for you gun every other week.
There are many factors involved with loading. Read read read. More data is always better.

Thought maybe this would get some talking going here. I get tired of all the Facebook chatter sometimes.
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Re: How versatile can a load be?

Postby ShootnMathews » Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:04 am

2400 fps seems to be the real sweet spot for the 7.62-54r. That's where my gun shoots the beat and after sharing that with a few others they found the best accuracy in there guns at around 2400.

Are these loads with the new bullet? I'm going to try some one day when I can spare the cash.
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Re: How versatile can a load be?

Postby Grimstod » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:22 am

These loads were with Smyert Mk 3.5 and my Berger 185gr VLDs.

With the GS Custom bullets I have two loads I can use. One at 43 gr taht gets me 2580fps or another one at 45gr that net yields 2770. I use the slower of the two to make my barrel last longer.
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Re: How versatile can a load be?

Postby Grindl » Thu Dec 18, 2014 1:59 am

I follow everything being said here ; but riddle me this , if you would , please ? If the "generalized" sweet-spot on a M-N is around 2400 , then why is most of the standard Mil-surp , and nearly every bit of standard "commericial" ammo going out at 2500+ fps ?
Could you also include barrel lengths of both rifles , so this will put the discussion into perspective , i.e. , shorter barrel equals lower standard over-all velocity . If I've been paying attention , a 20-22" barrel will have a much lower muzzle velocity than say , a 26-27" barrel shooting the same exact load . Thanks .
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Re: How versatile can a load be?

Postby ShootnMathews » Thu Dec 18, 2014 10:57 am

Grindl wrote:I follow everything being said here ; but riddle me this , if you would , please ? If the "generalized" sweet-spot on a M-N is around 2400 , then why is most of the standard Mil-surp , and nearly every bit of standard "commericial" ammo going out at 2500+ fps ?
Could you also include barrel lengths of both rifles , so this will put the discussion into perspective , i.e. , shorter barrel equals lower standard over-all velocity . If I've been paying attention , a 20-22" barrel will have a much lower muzzle velocity than say , a 26-27" barrel shooting the same exact load . Thanks .

My barrel is 25.5". Only because I messed up a threading job and had to cut off another 1/2" to thread over. 26" was my target.

I think factory loads are faster because they load them to shoot as fast as they safely can. Having more "knockdown" power in mind than accuracy. 90% of these factory loads are shot at less than 105 yards, In war and by most people now at the range. Long Range shooting has just taken off in the last few years. Before that 100 yards was the normal range for plinking and hunting and these factory rounds shoot well enough for hits at that range while also doing more damage. If someone were to load a "match" round for the Mosin that was to hopefully shoot well in most ( like the federal gold match in the 308), I'd load 174 grn .311 SMK with 50 grains of IMR4350. That will get you around 2400 in most, and seems to shoot very well in several that I've seen.

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Re: How versatile can a load be?

Postby Grimstod » Thu Dec 18, 2014 11:13 am

Every gun has a different sweet spot. The barrel I posted about was a 22in in the OP
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Re: How versatile can a load be?

Postby ShootnMathews » Thu Dec 18, 2014 5:31 pm

Grimstod wrote:Every gun has a different sweet spot.


That's true but a lot of times there will be a load that shoots reasonably well in a lot of guns. The Federal Gold Match 308 win. Load shoots sub MOA in thousands of guns and I know several people on LRH who's guns shoot 1/2 MOA or better with it. Will the load I posted do that? Doubtful, but I think it will shoot close to MOA in a lot of rifles.
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Re: How versatile can a load be?

Postby Grindl » Fri Dec 19, 2014 11:32 am

So ; accepting that each rifle will shoot a little differently , and approx. 2400 is a solid working number .....do you begin to lose accuracy if you are loading "bigger" to off-set for drop at longer ranges ? I've already loaded six rounds of 174gr .311 SMK with 53gr of Accurate 4350 as a test load . Maxium is set at 55C , and after running the calculator , I figured 53gr was a workable number for pushing that 8-900 yrd shot and trying to reduce drop . Am I going in the right direction with my thought process ,or should I stop digging a deeper hole to climb out of later ?
Is the goal to get to approx. 2400 , regardless of barrel length ? Because I'm reading that both of you guys are runnin around that with two or three different barrel lengths on different rifles . And just learn to live with the amount of "off-set" I have to dial on to compensate for "Drop" ?
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Re: How versatile can a load be?

Postby ShootnMathews » Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:02 pm

Grindl wrote:So ; accepting that each rifle will shoot a little differently , and approx. 2400 is a solid working number .....do you begin to lose accuracy if you are loading "bigger" to off-set for drop at longer ranges ? I've already loaded six rounds of 174gr .311 SMK with 53gr of Accurate 4350 as a test load . Maxium is set at 55C , and after running the calculator , I figured 53gr was a workable number for pushing that 8-900 yrd shot and trying to reduce drop . Am I going in the right direction with my thought process ,or should I stop digging a deeper hole to climb out of later ?
Is the goal to get to approx. 2400 , regardless of barrel length ? Because I'm reading that both of you guys are runnin around that with two or three different barrel lengths on different rifles . And just learn to live with the amount of "off-set" I have to dial on to compensate for "Drop" ?

Accuracy significantly drops off in mine as I pass 2400 fps. Yes it retains more energy and less drop but if it goes from a .5 Moa gun to a 1.5 Moa gun that means at 900 yards it went from a 5 " group to 15" group. Which is a no brainer when you're talking about a couple more feet of drop vs. that size of increase in group size.

2400 fps is only a rough fps that I've found to be accurate in several guns. The actual number will vary based on barrel contour, barrel length, and a different bullet will be different ( I use a .311" SMK). Every gun will be different. It's all about harmonics and getting the bullet to exit your muzzle when the barrel is near the center of its pattern and the shockwave of the recoil is near the reciever.most guns will have 3 "nodes" within the safe range for a powder at which this happens. For your gun the best node could be around 2400 or a little more. Perhaps less. And it will change with bullets according to their weigh and bearing surface. T shoots the 180 prohunters with 55 grains of imr4350 into 1 ragged hole. I haven't tried those but the SMK in mine will not tighten back up before hitting pressure signs.

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Re: How versatile can a load be?

Postby Grimstod » Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:54 pm

A barrel tuner can modify the harmonics of the barrel enough to give you the extra speed. Tuners essentially change the sweet spot. Installing a muzzle brake will do the same thing except it will not be adjustable. Jared experienced that. his accuracy dropped. For some guns it works and for others it does not.

My recommendation is with Mosins being so cheep just get another one, shoot it a few times and if it has a sweet spot that is faster then use that. Keeping the barrel uncut helps too.
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