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Curio and Relic Discussion

C and R vs. "face to face cash and carry" laws in California

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C and R vs. "face to face cash and carry" laws in California

Postby opos » Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:30 am

probably been asked and argued a million times but I have to ask if anyone has the solid "poop" on this subject. I am told that a C and R situation arises (and the laws pertaining to C and R) when one or both of the parties to the deal is an FFL (don't know if all FFl's are involved or simply a C and R FFL)....I'm also told that the cash and carry in California is for any long gun over 50 years old and is strictly bought and sold between private parties.

Now we get to the question of modified guns...I've read and sort of understand the "rules" about C and R weapons...again a weapon that involves one or more FFL's in the deal...I've also heard that until Jan 1, 2014 that any 50 year old long gun that is legal to be in California even if it has been restocked, modified, etc can still be sold without a DROS face to face between private parties...

That's what I've heard....please anyone that "knows"...I know none of any of it is fair...I know it might not be "right" but I'd sure like to know who has got the right scoop...I've tried to read what I can find of the law and I'm just really confused.

An example of what I might be interested in is to sell a 91-30 with an ATI stock and different sights on it....face to face, in California, before Jan 1 and between private parties only. Now, does that have to be DROS'd or not? Not as a C and R deal but as a face to face cash deal between non FFL's..

Thanks and let the games begin....
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Re: C and R vs. "face to face cash and carry" laws in Califo

Postby kcwomack » Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:41 pm

I came across this while considering my C&R, and here is the answer to the question concerning modifying a C&R firearm.

From ATF Website :crazy:

Curios & Relics

Q: What modifications can be made on C&R firearms without changing their C&R classification?

The definition for curio or relic (“C & R”) firearms found in 27 CFR § 478.11 does not specifically state that a firearm must be in its original condition to be classified as a C&R firearm. However, ATF Ruling 85-10, which discusses the importation of military C&R firearms, notes that they must be in original configuration and adds that a receiver is not a C&R item. Combining this ruling and the definition of C&R firearms, the Firearms Technology Branch (FTB) has concluded that a firearm must be in its original condition to be considered a C&R weapon.

It is also the opinion of FTB, however, that a minor change such as the addition of scope mounts, non-original sights, or sling swivels would not remove a firearm from its original condition. Moreover, we have determined that replacing particular firearms parts with new parts that are made to the original design would also be acceptable-for example, replacing a cracked M1 Grand stock with a new wooden stock of the same design, but replacing the original firearm stock with a plastic stock would change its classification as a C&R item. ... ifications
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